Tribe.net. Local Connections Domina Lilith http://catpeople.tribe.net/thread/d443a3e0-ad18-4f88-9473-e32711f71446#b038e061-914c-49ad-81c1-3b3b72313955 2006-02-08T04:18:12Z 2006-02-08T04:18:12Z

Which is why Veganesh should be banned from this tribe. He/she is just spamming us, not communicating. Though really, what possible reasonable defence could you have for trying to force a carnivore to survive on veggies? Domina

Domina Lilith 2006-02-08T04:18:12Z $item.owner.firstName http://catpeople.tribe.net/thread/d443a3e0-ad18-4f88-9473-e32711f71446#eca4cb95-aec5-43fa-9727-01cbf3c5fca5 2006-02-08T02:43:43Z 2006-02-08T02:43:43Z

But the sad part of all this is that Veganesh drops her spam off, but never comes back to discuss or defend her views.

$item.owner.firstName 2006-02-08T02:43:43Z $item.owner.firstName http://catpeople.tribe.net/thread/d443a3e0-ad18-4f88-9473-e32711f71446#11b84b68-c346-4bca-88c4-7a8605b50e5b 2006-02-08T01:42:12Z 2006-02-08T01:42:12Z

I think to be more specific it would be eating "a" vegan. Lol not quite what she had in mind I would think.

$item.owner.firstName 2006-02-08T01:42:12Z Sephina http://catpeople.tribe.net/thread/d443a3e0-ad18-4f88-9473-e32711f71446#937ba704-8c4e-46f9-9c88-154abae8d736 2006-02-08T01:27:58Z 2006-02-08T01:27:48Z

So.. would that mean they were 'eating vegan?'

Sephina 2006-02-08T01:27:48Z Domina Lilith http://catpeople.tribe.net/thread/d443a3e0-ad18-4f88-9473-e32711f71446#083d571d-52c8-4f6a-8d90-7c5e3f0cf029 2006-02-07T01:52:51Z 2006-02-07T01:52:51Z

I wish they'd ban veganesh from this tribe. He's a troll. I can't believe that anyone who even LIKES cats would try to turn them into vegetarians. That would ruin their health, We shouldn't have this kind of spam here. Yes, maybe we'll be lucky and his cats will turn on him and rip his throat out while he's sleeping. Domina

Domina Lilith 2006-02-07T01:52:51Z Elaine~ http://catpeople.tribe.net/thread/d443a3e0-ad18-4f88-9473-e32711f71446#e11d6bb2-5f2b-4b5e-9dcb-62265f4af53f 2006-02-06T20:32:02Z 2006-02-06T20:32:02Z

Veganesh wants the Burning man tribe to stop the clubbing murders of baby seals. You can imagine the responses. Just a troll and not to be taken seriously, it would seem.

Elaine~ 2006-02-06T20:32:02Z Bender B. Rodriguez http://catpeople.tribe.net/thread/d443a3e0-ad18-4f88-9473-e32711f71446#cfce316e-55ab-41f1-be09-a0514fe1738c 2006-02-06T19:01:25Z 2006-02-06T19:01:25Z

i can only hope that Veganesh and any vegan who tries to force their lifestyle on an Obligate carnivore such as a cat is summarily EATEN by their cat 'cause as Wilford Brimley says in the oatmeal commercials "it's the right thing to do"

Bender B. Rodriguez 2006-02-06T19:01:25Z Lisa Eirene http://catpeople.tribe.net/thread/d443a3e0-ad18-4f88-9473-e32711f71446#b822e53c-b8f4-4f54-8513-99dcad8fd09e 2006-02-06T18:19:44Z 2006-02-06T18:19:44Z

LOL me too. MEOW! no more meat! MEOW!

Lisa Eirene 2006-02-06T18:19:44Z $item.owner.firstName http://catpeople.tribe.net/thread/d443a3e0-ad18-4f88-9473-e32711f71446#573b57e9-5396-4810-a677-cb4e0b03b7e8 2006-02-06T16:37:56Z 2006-02-06T16:37:56Z

ROFLMAO , sorry the mental picture of that had me rolling on the floor = )!

$item.owner.firstName 2006-02-06T16:37:56Z $item.owner.firstName http://catpeople.tribe.net/thread/d443a3e0-ad18-4f88-9473-e32711f71446#f249091a-5d43-4f7f-b3ee-8e632c74cfb6 2006-02-06T16:35:08Z 2006-02-06T16:35:08Z

The day my cats come to me and say," hey, we've been thinking about it and we have a moral/ethical dilemna with eating meat" is the day I'll think about trying to turn my cats vegan.

$item.owner.firstName 2006-02-06T16:35:08Z ~Ms. Purity~ http://catpeople.tribe.net/thread/d443a3e0-ad18-4f88-9473-e32711f71446#7caef7e8-f4d2-45de-b892-d4ed77c7c84f 2006-02-06T15:22:45Z 2006-02-06T15:22:45Z

it's this person Veganesh who bombards all of the tribes at once.

~Ms. Purity~ 2006-02-06T15:22:45Z Lisa Eirene http://catpeople.tribe.net/thread/d443a3e0-ad18-4f88-9473-e32711f71446#ccef3f5d-1510-4e87-8433-10b70d53e63b 2006-02-06T15:00:04Z 2006-02-06T15:00:04Z

>>I actually do have a problem with forcing cats and dogs into unnatural and UNHEALTHY diets because a pet owner has issues or guilt about meat consumption. << Agreed. Just because I chose to be vegetarian or vegan or whatever, doesn't mean I'd force my cats to be!! Come on! Cats eat mice! That's natural. So how does that make sense to feed them vegan diets??

Lisa Eirene 2006-02-06T15:00:04Z $item.owner.firstName http://catpeople.tribe.net/thread/d443a3e0-ad18-4f88-9473-e32711f71446#4eda0baa-cc04-4184-aaa4-6783ac23e307 2006-02-06T14:59:07Z 2006-02-06T14:59:07Z

why are we having vegan cat food comercials on all the cat tribes ??

$item.owner.firstName 2006-02-06T14:59:07Z Elaine~ http://catpeople.tribe.net/thread/d443a3e0-ad18-4f88-9473-e32711f71446#f1594aeb-1f49-4fa6-b0f8-8dda240177f9 2006-02-06T07:19:29Z 2006-02-06T07:19:29Z

Cats aren't meant to be vegan. Sorry, but there ya go. They eat meat and are designed to eat meat-by nature, God, Allah, FSM whomever. Yes, I actually do have a problem with forcing cats and dogs into unnatural and UNHEALTHY diets because a pet owner has issues or guilt about meat consumption.

Elaine~ 2006-02-06T07:19:29Z Lacey http://catpeople.tribe.net/thread/d443a3e0-ad18-4f88-9473-e32711f71446#238d3282-d032-4144-9a4e-956616150cdc 2006-02-06T06:25:15Z 2006-02-06T06:25:15Z

So, WHY do you want to take a perfectly natural meat eating animal, and feed them weird chemical stuff? Cats, unlike humans, are carnivores by nature, and for a reason....they don't exploit recources to get their meat and don't do all the stupid things that humans do to their meat, why force them to be vegan?

Lacey 2006-02-06T06:25:15Z ~Ms. Purity~ http://catpeople.tribe.net/thread/d443a3e0-ad18-4f88-9473-e32711f71446#799116b4-f971-4220-a920-e7d2e4d9fff9 2006-02-06T03:16:21Z 2006-02-06T03:16:21Z

so you'd rather feed your pet unnatural stuff?

~Ms. Purity~ 2006-02-06T03:16:21Z Lisa Eirene http://catpeople.tribe.net/thread/d443a3e0-ad18-4f88-9473-e32711f71446#0e72ae05-d635-48f9-b12f-8086c0a61d8c 2006-02-06T02:46:13Z 2006-02-06T02:46:13Z

vegan cats??? this sounds ridiculous to me...

Lisa Eirene 2006-02-06T02:46:13Z veganesh http://catpeople.tribe.net/thread/d443a3e0-ad18-4f88-9473-e32711f71446#0c8d6058-eb1f-4b75-92d9-854d43ee2714 2006-02-06T02:23:16Z 2006-02-06T02:23:16Z

Synthetic taurine made for vegan cats I just learned that synthetic taurine is available.. maybe you already knew www.vegancats.com * Don’t cats need a dietary source of Taurine? * Is it true that vegancats.com is telling some people to feed their cats meat? * I don't want to feed my cat ANY meat; what steps can I take to accomplish this? * You're not listening to me. I don't want my cats to eat ANY meat. Is such a thing possible? * Isn't it hypocritical and non-vegan to recommend that people give their cats meat? * Are there any other health concerns I ought to worry about with my vegan cats, other than urinary tract issues? * Should I also consider feeding some meat to my dogs? * Which food should I be buying for my cats and dogs? * Do you offer free samples? * I live in _____. Is there a store in my area that carries your products? Don’t cats need a dietary source of Taurine? Yes- and the vegan cat foods we carry contain adequate amounts. Although Taurine naturally occurs only in animal tissue, synthetic Taurine has been produced on a large scale since about 1930. In fact, many meat-based pet foods utilize synthetic Taurine to meet nutritional requirements as well (most naturally-occurring Taurine is washed away during the rendering process)! Back to Top Is it true that vegancats.com is telling some people to feed their cats meat? Yes. After much soul-searching, we have decided to change our official recommedations for certain cats. Urinary tract problems are extremely common in cats and, because of the relative acidity of meat to vegetable protein, many vegan cats suffer from them. Although we have been giving advice for some time on how these problems can be minimized while still feeding a completely vegan diet, we have found that the vast majority of our customers have not been following this advice. Unless you are very committed to following the advice outlined below, we therefore recommend that you mitigate the risk of urinary tract problems by feeding males cats only a 25-75% vegan diet and females a 50-100% vegan diet. Back to Top I don't want to feed my cat ANY meat; what steps can I take to accomplish this? Because of anatomical differences, the risk of urinary tract problems is much less in females than in males (although both can develop crystals in their bladders that can cause discomfort, females cannot become completely blocked by an aggregation of these crystals; therefore, urinary tract problems in females are easier and less expensive to fix and are not as painful and potentially dangerous as they are in males). For this reason, we recommend that all female cats be given a 100% vegan diet unless they display a tendency for chronic urinary tract problems that cannot be controlled through the basic preventative methods outlined below. In those relatively rare instances, giving some canned meat food along with the vegan food may be a necessary step to normalize pH. Because of the greater risk to males, we recommend that some canned meat (a veternarian-prescribed pH balancing formula is ideal) be given along with vegan food, regardless of their medical history. Cats who have never displayed any tendencies to develop urinary tract problems can probably get by at the lower end of this scale, however, while those who have had problems in the past may need as much as 1/2 to 3/4 of their food consist of meat in order to completely mitigate this risk. For all cats of both sexes, the following basic rules of prevention ought to be followed as much as possible: 1) make sure your cat is getting as much water in their meals as possible. Wet or canned food is preferable to dry; if your cat will only eat kibble, consider soaking it in water for a few minutes prior to serving. No cat-- particularly males-- should be eating a diet of just kibble or dry food. 2) add enzymes pH to every meal. Enzymes are a good idea anyway, as they aid digestion and reduce metabolic tax on the body; enzymes pH also contains vitamin C and cranberry extract, both of which help acidify the urine and soothe the urinary tract simultaneously. 3) have your vet check your cat's urine pH and make sure it remains in the range of 6.0-6.5. This is the step that most people seem inclined to skip, but it is the number one diagnostic method by which you can head off a problem before it starts. This test will probably only run you in the neighborhood of $20-30, and can pick up a risk before it becomes a serious issue. Treatment for a blocked male cat who requires hospitalization and catheterization, on the other hand, may run you $1000 or more (and this is not even taking into consideration the effect on your cat). It is WELL worth taking the time to get this test done within the first few weeks of introducing a vegan diet to your male cats. Back to Top You're not listening to me. I don't want my cats to eat ANY meat. Is such a thing possible? Yes, of course it is. There are literally thousands of 100% vegan cats out there and most of them do fine. Females, as mentioned above, can usually be given a 100% vegan diet with no problem. And so can many males. However, we really need to stress that if you want to make your males completely vegan, you need to be very dedicated and vigilant when it comes to maintaining their urinary tract health. NEVER feed a male a strictly kibble diet. Most vegan male cats will do best on NO kibble whatsoever (we recommend making them meals using Vegecat pH ideally). Have their urine pH checked by a veterinarian, as outlined above, not just once but periodically. If the pH is over 6.5, or if crystals are detected in the urine, you may need to introduce a methionine supplement into the diet (we sell a vegan version, but you will need to get a dosage prescribed by your vet) and then get another pH reading done to make sure the supplement has been effective. Back to Top Isn't it hypocritical and non-vegan to recommend that people give their cats meat? No, we don't think so. As vegans personally, and as a vegan company, our goal is to reduce animal suffering and death by as much as we possibly can. Although we believe that the majority of cats can do fine on an entirely or mostly vegan diet as long as proper precautions are taken, we have come to realize that many people find the steps outlined above to be daunting or confusing, and choose to ignore them and feed their cats vegan anyway (which may lead to urinary tract problems and ultimate disillusionment with the idea of vegan cat food altogether) or decide that feeding their cats a vegan diet is too difficult or risky and so continue to feed them meat. We hope that everyone with the time, dedication and resources to carefully monitor their cat's urinary tract health and take all reasonable precautions to maintain it-- as outlined above-- will continue to do so. Our intention is not to scare anyone who has completely vegan cats and seems to be doing fine with them into going back to meat. What we hope to do is encourage people who are nervous about giving their cats vegan food, whether because their cat experienced a urinary tract incident while on vegan food in the past or for some other reason, that they do not necessarily have to choose between a 100% vegan diet and a 100% meat one. A fifty/fifty split, for example, can decrease their contribution to the animal slaughter industry by a significant amount while at the same time mitigating their cats' risk of developing urinary tract problems. If all the vegans out there who are worried about feeding their cats a vegan diet would instead strive to feed them a partially vegan diet, the collective benefit to animals would be tremendous. For this reason we believe that advising people to give their cats a mix of vegan and meat food is not only not hypocritical and anti-vegan, it is actually the most moral, ethically consistent, vegan position that we can possibly hold at the present time. Back to Top Are there any other health concerns I ought to worry about with my vegan cats, other than urinary tract issues? Nope. None. Although veterinarians often attempt to blame any health problem that a vegan cat may develop on the diet, nothing other than the aforementioned appears to show up any more often in vegan cats than it does in non-vegans. Back to Top Should I also consider feeding some meat to my dogs? No. Dogs are natural omnivores much like ourselves and adapt as easily to a vegan diet as we do. They do not have the same tendency to develop urinary tract problems that cats do, and so none of the precautions listed for cats applies to them. Back to Top Which food should I be buying for my cats and dogs? The best food for cats is Vegecat (pH is recommended for most-- see above), which is a supplement that comes with recipes that you can use to make food at home. If you don't have time to cook for your cat, Evolution is also nutritionally complete and doesn't require any additional supplementation. If you are going to be also giving your cat some meat food, we don't particularly endorse any brand over any other; it mat be a good idea to use a special "prescription" pH formula (available through vets) though, as this will allow you to use the least meat possible. posted by: posted by: posted by:

veganesh 2006-02-06T02:23:16Z